Anything that satisfies these four criteria is called money”. They can push houses, they can push cars, they can push and manipulate any product or good they wish but, they have to do it by creating money out of thin air and by issuing, granting and backing unsustainable private and public “debt”. It is and was gold, silver and copper coin.
How is it not obvious to everyone that 100% of our problem rests only in our greed after third world wages? If we would forsake that greed, we could restore everything back to where it was in no time. “A compu-what?” -Thomas Jefferson”What’s an airplane?” -George Washington~Our ship is sinking in the river delta, “fresh” water is rising in the hull, the problem is “fresh” water, head for the open sea full steam ahead helmsman, we wont have any of that “fresh” water business, “salt” water is the “sound” water this ship needed all along, “salt” water is the solution to our sinking problem~ -Captain McFish~If you are alone in an alley facing an hostile bandit, it doesnt matter “who” has the gun, whats really important is what “type” of gun is involved, dont mind if its the crook instead of you thats armed, what really count is that “someone” doesnt have a Revolver but has a Pistol instead, the last thing you want is for “someone” to have a Revolver, (dont you think that it would be better for you to have a Pistol and for the Bandit to have none), whats important is that there is no “Revolver”, repeat after me, “no revolver”, “no revolver”, “Pistol” is the Solution, you want there to be a Pistol, repeat after me we want a pistol in the alley.~ George McQuotesJust made these up Money is itself an underlying problem we need to move beyond, but thats very difficult to see, I sure as hell didnt see it as a problem in itself even after reading about it, even if you are told there’s a hole in the ship’s hull, you cant see it with a casual observation, you just see the water, and feel the water, the symptom is blatant but the cause cannot be seen(below the water). More seriously though, so you are even against the gold standard? Insufficient demand comes from over production, it is that simple. People lose their jobs, demand falls temporarily in country B and it goes through a recession.The problem here was that the change in supply and demand was a shock, it is not something that either country could have prepared for. Do you want to blame the 1929 recession on fiat currency?
That’s exactly what caused the great depression, and instead of the US government admitting their wrong and readjusting the value of the paper currency to bring it in line and backed by gold, they confiscated all the peoples gold and made it illegal for them to own, gave them fiat 20 dollar bills for each ounce, then turned right around and declared that an ounce of gold was worth 35 us fiat dollars in order to account and bring in line just a fraction of their counterfeit fiat currency overseas because they allowed foreigners to keep turning in their US bills for gold ( up to the 1970s).When one thinks about the total amount of counterfeit fiat currency the US government had to have had created, they only have to understand that they had to take all the gold from all the american people but still needed to raise the value of gold from 20 dollars to 35 just to cover a fraction of the fiat dollars circulating in foreign nations alone… Counterfeit fiat currency is also well known and understood..”if in the pursuit of the means we should unfortunately stumble again on unfunded paper money or any similar species of fraud, we shall assuredly give a fatal stab to our national credit in its infancy. Do you want to blame the 1929 recession on fiat currency? Two short sentences should suffice, something along the line of “Money is defined by these four criteria: medium of exchange, unit of account, store of value and standard of deferred payment. There have been several recessions in that time, coming at about the same rate as recessions came in the decades before fiat currency.The present recession is the second worst in 100 years, but the 1929 recession was a lot worse. And that begins a cycle of deflation. Life is grand, trees grow tall and happy days plays insistently on the TV.Now something happens that upsets the whole arrangement – someone invents a horseless buggy in country A and suddenly the demand for buggy whips drops to zero rather quickly in that country. This is all meaningless without your definition of money.
And so was the explosion of fake markets and fake banks when the people tried to take out their fake currency in order to turn it in for real US money at some point. Each time wages go down, demand goes down. They are manipulated and they will all eventually pop essay+writing+service+uk
. There have been several recessions in that time, coming at about the same rate as recessions came in the decades before fiat currency.The present recession is the second worst in 100 years, but the 1929 recession was a lot worse. But here is the problem, lets say country B also has a small internal combustion engine business which it now needs to retool to turn into its primary industry, this involves retraining and re-skilling of workers, changes in production etc. Paper money will invariably operate in the body of politics as spirit liquors on the human body. Originally Posted by river_rat Originally Posted by gonzales56 Yes we do, as well as very different definitions of money supply.
Gold and silver coins, require you to buy (or borrow) the right to use it as a currency, thats a racket, a fraud, its like “buying” and paying for your community to have an official Font for letters and documents. They get the benefit of cheaply affording someone else’s labor without the liability of having their own wage drop….. initially. We have sci-fi ideas like Star Trek, which like Jules Verne’s “20000 Leagues under the sea” provides the much needed idea such a progress is possible, with a number of useful concepts to eventually build one, but Jules Verne didnt (afaik) provide the blueprints of a functional submarine.
So this is your definition of money? Very dungeons and dragons of you… It is very clear what constitutional money is and was in the United States before, during and after the great depression. Originally Posted by kojax Originally Posted by westwind A Recession, meaning when wage earners suffer when the Job Market Tightens due to insufficient demand for Goods and ServicesWhere does the insufficient demand come from? Insufficient demand comes from over production, it is that simple.
The fed and government where running and distributing counterfeit fiat currency and counting on not getting caught due to fractional banking/holdings of real constitutional money. Originally Posted by skeptic I do not think you can blame fiat currency for the recession.The USA had fiat currency since 1972. Did you miss my little story above?
That’s exactly what caused the great depression, and instead of the US government admitting their wrong and readjusting the value of the paper currency to bring it in line and backed by gold, they confiscated all the peoples gold and made it illegal for them to own, gave them fiat 20 dollar bills for each ounce, then turned right around and declared that an ounce of gold was worth 35 How much of that happened from 1929-1931 when the actual depression took hold? The gold reserve act was only passed in 1934 for example? Goods that were manufactured at the previously higher wage level must now be sold at the current lower demand level. The crime, fraud and manipulation was surely epic…
That’s bad for business. (Usually you want to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low.)Investors start to realize it’s a no-win situation and withdraw their investment money from the manufacturing sector, making it even harder for anyone to open a new manufacturing business to replace the jobs being lost. I do not think you can blame fiat currency for the recession.The USA had fiat currency since 1972. Now country B is in a right pickle, as the one thing they where making and selling is no longer needed outside of their borders. After it progresses a while, their own wage drops in order to make them competitive with the wages of those other workers who’s labor they have been affording so cheaply. And just like you need stone tools to make the Bronze age infrastructure possible, that in turn will make the use of stone tools obsolete, odds are we will need a monetary system as a means to develop the infrastructure/basis to create a society where the use of money is obsolete.
Originally Posted by kojax Where does the insufficient demand come from? If the wage earners were making a decent wage, wouldn’t they themselves be a source of demand? You have forgotten about an important part of economics – shocks. Lets create a simple model to explain. The total counterfeit fiat currency circulating in the US had to be an amazingly high and outrageous amount..
Things are good as country A can sell its products to country B and use the proceeds of those sales to buy what country B is making. Originally Posted by gonzales56 It is very clear what constitutional money is and was in the United States before, during and after the great depression. Suppose we have two countries each producing one good: lets say country A makes horse buggies while country B makes horse buggy whips. Existing businesses find themselves unable to borrow enough money to weather the storm and shut down. The Type of money is a Red Herring(fresh water vs salt water), whats more important at first look is Who controls the money(that there is water no matter the type), and this governance problem is a symptom we see, but its reoccuring because its a symptom of the systemic failure(hole in the hull) that is inherent to money. Governments and their speculators drive markets into bubbles but, these markets are not real. Worgl was able to prosper with its own local “paper” currency.
They prey on the vitals and ultimately destroy them.” “Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.” – George Washington”Paper is poverty,… it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself.” – Thomas Jefferson “The trifling economy of paper, as a cheaper medium, or its convenience for transmission, weighs nothing in opposition to the advantages of the precious metals… it is liable to be abused, has been, is, and forever will be abused, in every country in which it is permitted.” – Thomas Jefferson The workers consent to it because initially their own wages are remaining high while someone else’s wages are going down. It is and was gold, silver and copper coin. You can chuck water out of the boat, do as FDR did an say Wall Street is accused in the court of Public Opinion and implement various policies that offset inequality and keep chucking buckets of water out, but sooner or later, people with influence will systematically recreate the same mess we are in, not because they are bad individuals, since had they been born in Ethiopia they might as well have died before knowing what the name of the country was they had been born in, but because thats what the monetary system fosters.Right now we have no working prototype for a (modern industrial automating urbanized) money-less society, this is a fair and factual criticism.
Than please share yours as they seem to be very non-standard.